The future of BBC Local Radio

Or more fully .... it needs updating but I don't think major networking is a good idea.  Perhaps for late evenings and overnights it could be an option for smaller stations ... but London for example should be able to offer quality programming most of the day.  The big argument with BBC radio in general, or so I'm reliably informed, is the over-staffing.  2 producers, tech ops, tea ladies etc...  If it were to streamline, I'm sure that stations could be run more cheaply *and* be able to afford better talk talent to put into the programming.  I do believe that it should be talk based, but some music shows are not a bad idea (especially if you have someone with the talent of Mr Blackburn on board).

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Regards,

Geoff

Christopher England <(Address removed)> said:

Am I the only one who thinks it's time to close down BBC Local Radio? -

Yes , i think you probably are !
There is definately a case for reviewing what it does versus what it costs though. For a start , on the technical side , almost all medium wave transmitter sites should be closed down apart from one for each station for the regional services for Wales and Scotland where FM reception is patchy due to hills and mountains. That would save a fortune straight away.
The playlist for music - what little there is , i agree is dated to say the least and should perhaps be closer to that of BBC Radio 2. I definately would not want to only be left with commercial radio apart from the national networks - of which 'Heart' and 'Capital' are now virtually two after swallowing what were previously much more local services up. Commercial radio tends to do my head in after a fairly short period of time and i seem to have developed a complete intolerance of commercial breaks as i get older. Yes, i do not like all by far of what they talk about on my local BBC Station (BBC Essex) in which case i tune elsewhere for a while but always come back later for the mixture of talk and news and weather. Both of these is not catered to by the commercial sector , and even if they try , it looses credability when they have to go to a commercial break. So , to round up , close most AM outlets to save money as few people listen to them anyway, update the playlist more regularly , reduce behind the scenes staffing - less producers, and let the presenters have the freedom to control output more. Clusters of stations can be networked in the evenings and overnight as they are in quite a few cases already to save money and cater to specialist programming.

Do not confuse Radio Scotland as a BBC Local it is a National station with a TSA of 5000000. The entire Commercial system has been assimilated by the Borg.
BBC locals provide a good service, they were the ONLY source for local information during the recent severe weather and during previous flooding. The commercial stations failed MISERABLY in both these instances, community stations are neither equipped nor funded to be able to provide this sort of service; therefore it is important that the BBC locals are retained and supported. I have listened to BBC Newcastle, they are doing a grand job. Radio Scotland ties to be all things to all people, they do well but could NEVER be considered LOCAL

So we need to keep it despite nobody listening to it? I don't immediately follow that logic, to be honest. If BBC Local Radio isn't ever going to be allowed to produce programming that people listen to, then what's it for apart from costing us a fortune?

They killed BBC Radio London which was very popular (especially with Tony Blackburn showing off his 12-inchers in mid-mornings) and replaced it with that awful GLR that nobody listened to at one point in order to not be accused of providing popular programming. They've been combining local stations to make 40 regional stations across England (plus 2 for Wales only, 2 for Scotland, etc.), and generally done all they can to 'rationalise' apart from close the damn things down.

My plan would be to have breakfast and drive (talking only, no pointless Smooth Radio rejected music), and for there to be 'local inserts' of news/weather/travel within the output of 5Live which it would carry at the rest of times. Or, at the very least have a 'Radio UK' sustaining service, or even one for England. The other countries have their own BBC radio stations, why hasn't England? Then maybe also have other times when local sports or important events might be cut-away to be covered. Outside of this, shut the damn things down!

Broadly speaking, I can't see a reason for Radio 3's continued existence in this modern day and age. All that it provides would be better served, along with whole tranches of Radio 4, via on-demand services, rather than taking up radio space and being randomly broadcast serially when nobody's listening. Yes, we needed it to be like that until we came to something better than radio technology-wise, but now it no longer has any point or usefulness. Better off using Radio 2 / Radio 4 to cross-promote and tease for what's available on demand, and release the Radio 3 frequencies for 5Live, or a modernised rolling talk format. Oh, and revamp Radio 4 to bring it more up to date too.

I could run the BBC, me.

Christopher England <(Address removed)> said:

I could run the BBC, me.

I don't agree that radio 3 should be shut down - it caters for an audience that only the BBC could do , but there is now definately a very strong case for making it a digital only station given the small audience it has. The radio 3 FM frequencies could then be given to Five live so they can close down the medium wave service or even offer the network to applications from commercial operators to create a new national FM station for the UK. Radio 4 is something i dip in and out of but i don't see that it needs any radical changes. As for BBC local and regional stations that nobody listens to - i think they have more than you might think for. It is true that afew are less popular and need a revamp , but many have bigger audiences than all their commercial rivals in that area combined. This is especially true in areas of the UK away from central and south east of the country. Radio Scotland reaches the parts no commercial station reaches nor probably would want to reach as they are too sparcely populated but provide a valuable bublic sevice as pointed out by Alex. It is a public service after all that the BBC is supposed to provide. Going back a few years i would likely have agreed with Christophers views, but i have come to realise over the years that i do rely more on the BBC for quality output than ever before in our populist culture.

You know Mr England used to be quite a decent Guy, AN was the first Pirate/ Offshore Radio related site i found and joined when i first went on line in about 2003, The discussions on here were the best and if you were a Radio Anorak it was the place to be,

When i had my first stroke in 2004 he was very supportive and i thank him for that and also when our old mate Mic Corran had his problems and eventually took his own life his support was outstanding but recently Mr Englands outlook seems to have changed, Instead just starting and taking part in sensible discussions all he seems to want to do know is cause argument ect by posting something controversial like this thread about BBC Local Radio of even calling Anoracks mental or something and he wonders why this site doesn't have many posts these days??

Sad really!!

Yes, good compromise, I'd go with that.

The main thrust of what I'm thinking is that the minority and highly specialist interest programming doesn't actually need to be burbled out in a serial fashion via a 'broadcasting' medium any more. There's no point. Better it sit there on a programme by programme basis waiting for somebody to download or stream it on demand, and it be cross-promoted via a generic (radio) output like Radio 2.

Radio 1 and 1Xtra are always doing this. Even in the news you'll hear a soundbite and they'll say, "To hear more of that interview go to ..." and direct you to the website where a full 20 minute interview will sit. Recently it's been UK dubstep (currently one of my favourite music genres) week, and one of the regular cross-promotions has been for a video on the site of the 90 piece BBC Philharmonic Orchestra performing with Nero in Salford (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00hdsyn).

So, I think I see that extending to being how specialist and minority interest programming should be 'served', freeing up the radio medium for the programming that needs a far more instant audience, like news, sports and interaction (phone-in, etc), as well as for 'barkering', teasing and promoting what's available on demand. Radio has to become the shop window for the more specialist interest stuff, and pointing to where to find it rather than actually broadcasting it.

This is the way it's developing in TV as well. The Sky Anytime thingie, and Talktalk and Virgin all offering more and more programme on demand, so you can start them and stop them when you want to rather than have to sit poised at a set (and usually inconvenient) time to watch them played out serially. Personally, unlss I'm bored and just zapping up and down channels or watching news, I never watch anything as it is broadcast. I either 'record' it (Sky+) or play it on demand. I think this way of watching will explode fantastically once they all role out the Youview malarkey next year (www.youview.com). It, especially the 'free' aspect of it, seriously will change the way people watch telly, and so radio will have to look to doing a similar thing.

Hence why I see 'radio' taking a different role to the one it has traditionally taken with respect to specialist interest and minority programming. It's time to consider shrinking 'radio' and swapping around the dinosaur aspects of it, to move with modern needs, and BBC radio has to lead the way with a radical rethink.

Going back a few years i would likely have agreed with Christophers
views, but i have come to realise over the years that i do rely more on
the BBC for quality output than ever before in our populist culture.

But what would be wrong in playing out that output on demand rather than it busying up a 'serial' radio channel?

I still am, fella.

recently Mr
Englands outlook seems to have changed, Instead just starting and taking
part in sensible discussions all he seems to want to do know is cause
argument ect by posting something controversial like this thread about
BBC Local Radio

Well, the thread is potentially a sensible discussion. A good number of well put and valid views have been spouted by the few that still contribute to this platform. Those views include my own, which, as with nearly all the things I have said over the decades will usually come to pass in the way I have indicated, even though the flat-earthists of the day moan about me and what I'm saying about the future and label it as an 'argument'. You forget how completely brilliant I am!

Anyway, I realise you are repeating the sort of thing that's said about me (and a few others) within David Parr's Caroline 279 forum (you guys always seem to forget that I can read all that goes on in there), but I haven't seen any of you from that forum contribute your actual views on other boards and forums about the subjects offer for debate or discussion. Instead, you guys pick loads of silly and constantly changing names and just slag people off on other boards rather than join in with conversations. You guys actually behave like you are all nothing more than a bunch of mad people from madland, hence why I and all sensible anoraks despise you lot!

These are certainly the types of anoraks that are cruel, wicked, vindictive and nasty, and really should just go away and kill themselves if all they can do is moan about and pick on others.

However, what's any of this got to do with this thread, which was a conversation about BBC Local Radio, extending outwards to being about radio in the future, and on demand stuff. Do you have any views on the subject, Richard, or is your only mission in life to moan about me daring to have views, and to disrupt any thread you find me on?

From: "Richard Sharpe" <(Address removed)>

recently Mr
Englands outlook seems to have changed, Instead just starting and taking
part in sensible discussions all he seems to want to do know is cause
argument ect by posting something controversial like this thread about
BBC Local Radio of even calling Anoracks mental or something and he
wonders why this site doesn't have many posts these days??

Maybe Mr England is using that age old speech radio tactic, if you say something really outrageous then people will respond!
Hence we might get more traffic on this once busy and hugely entertaining site! Instead of it just fading into oblivion sadly.

I'm still waiting here for the call to replace Pete Price on Radio City, y'know.

I've got my first show topic list all sorted:

How good a read The Sun is.
Which team is the best, Chelsea or Man U.
How to tell if a Scouser is a real Scouser (eg, he/she will use the word 'Scouser' within the first four sentences they utter to you, and mention 'Margaret Thatcher' within the two after that). Why the tunnels should be bricked up.
And, why all dogs in the area have to be ugly.

Those are my first show's talking topics. Bring it on. :)

In article <(Address removed)>, (Address removed) (Steve Martin) wrote:

Maybe Mr England is using that age old speech radio tactic, if you
say something really outrageous then people will respond!
Hence we might get more traffic on this once busy and hugely
entertaining site! Instead of it just fading into oblivion sadly.

I confess, I've gone to reading rather than contributing as much due to Anorakism not featuring as much on here. Life has changed since AN was launched and as such anorakism has changed as well. With respect to those who want a solely pirate/offshore radio group, that is only going to serve as the murder weapon of AN.

Regards
Eric

PS BBC locals should stay but need one hell of a shake up to get rid of that which was once directed at hospital radio presenters.

From: "Eric Wiltsher" <(Address removed)>

PS BBC locals should stay but need one hell of a shake up to get rid of
that which was once directed at hospital radio presenters.

They certainly need shaking up, my local station, Radio Merseyside has changed very little in 30 years!

Don't know why, but I passed this way and a found a constructive thread. I must admit personally I'm not a big fan of Local BBC output but I do know a fair few people who do tune in. I would not call BBC Radio London local, but I still feel they need to be there, along with the local county stations as they do supply a good local output of community events, something you don't seem to get anywhere else on the Radio.

I think daytime output is essential and regional output should continue to be the norm in the evening as I believe this is first point of contact in a crisis for a large amount of people. I also think Five Live and the BBC should have a MW/LW output for their excellent programmes, both the here and now type and maybe as Chris says a showcase for online content with the odd star programme going out to encourage people online and for those in rural areas whose online experience is constrained.

BBC Radio Three should show the way with an all digital output, freeing up a national FM space. BBC Locals should either close there AM or FM whatever is the most cost effective, with BBC Wales and Scotland carrying on as they are considering the terrain and the fact that they are their countries national stations. Also they could do with cutting back Management, I'm sure that would save a considerable amount without effecting output. Instead of networking programmes from a national station how about networking the many local Managers, I'm sure one Manager could run a number of locals instead of duplicating positions.

Finally I think it is long overdue that Ofcom started to do what is was setup to do and manage the spectrum efficiently, time it got some teeth and told the BBC that they are no longer allowed to get away with duplicating programming on AM and FM (same with LBC in London) any spectrum that is freed up can then be sold off to whoever can fill up those frequencies with some complimentary programming to what is currently being put out by the current crop of providers.

Plus if no one decides to use the freed up AM spectrum as there is too little demand then it will reduce green house gasses and encourage people to get a Digital Radio (Or it would do if the system we use was not so sh*t),

Steve

Christopher England <(Address removed)> said:

But what would be wrong in playing out that output on demand rather than
it busying up a 'serial' radio channel?

You wont' get any argument from me as far as radio - and in fact all broadcasting - radio and TV , becoming increasingly listened to or viewed On-demand is concerned. I watch most of my TV , although a witch very little it has to be said , on-demand these days , either online on via TV PVR recorder.

That was not the subject of your original discussion though - you was saying that BBC local radio should be closed down as nobody listenes to it. Nobody else has agree with you so far. We have all however said that it needs reform in many cases and there is a definate chorus from us anoraks that the BBC needs to give up it's stranglehold on so much of the RF spectrum to make way for new alternatives to give even greater choice to those unable to listen online most of the time. This would save the BBC millions of pounds and enable it to continue to deliver it's public service remit and provide what , in many cases cannot be done by commercial operators. A few have tried but largely failed.

Christopher England <(Address removed)> said:

Well, the thread is potentially a sensible discussion. A good number of
well put and valid views have been spouted by the few that still
contribute to this platform. Those views include my own, which, as with
nearly all the things I have said over the decades will usually come to
pass in the way I have indicated, even though the flat-earthists of the
day moan about me and what I'm saying about the future and label it as
an 'argument'. You forget how completely brilliant I am!

Anyway, I realise you are repeating the sort of thing that's said about
me (and a few others) within David Parr's Caroline 279 forum (you guys
always seem to forget that I can read all that goes on in there), but I
haven't seen any of you from that forum contribute your actual views on
other boards and forums about the subjects offer for debate or
discussion. Instead, you guys pick loads of silly and constantly
changing names and just slag people off on other boards rather than join
in with conversations. You guys actually behave like you are all
nothing more than a bunch of mad people from madland, hence why I and
all sensible anoraks despise you lot!

These are certainly the types of anoraks that are cruel, wicked,
vindictive and nasty, and really should just go away and kill themselves
if all they can do is moan about and pick on others.

Wow!! what a nasty post from Young Mr England!!

OK i will try and address a couple of points, I cant find a Caroline 279 forum and i have searched as i suspect others have, Plus why to you drag David Parr into everything, I have met him personally and he is a really decent Guy?

As for picking silly and constantly changing names to slag people off??

I can assure you that David and i and most people i know have never done that so i dont know what gives you that idea?

I said Mr Englands outlook had changed and his post seems to go someway to prove it!!

In article <459747ea-129a-4bae-a08f-e92d2080b86f@veldt>, (Address removed) (Richard Sharpe) wrote:

I said Mr Englands outlook had changed and his post seems to go
someway to prove it!!

Hi Richard

I'm not going to defend Chris as he's big enough and ugly enough :-) to do that himself.

There are so many issues with RC that a great deal of them leave me cold, especially the internal politics.

I accept and acknowledge I'm an Anorak, but that doesn't limit my anorakism to offshore radio.

I am still very passionate about radio and I'm proud of that which RTI is doing even now. This week we show how powerful radio can be and we have put the fear of your chosen God into some upstart politicians - that's what radio can do and that's what BBC Locals can do if they want to rather than running stories on who's lost a cat.

Returning to the boards on RC, I don't read them as to be honest I found them really boring and after a visit ages ago I haven't returned.

Recently I wrote up a piece about a student radio project where they designed and built a smartphone app for their station - really cool and all done for free. What's more the station has a really good take up of the student universe interested in the subject.

I am seriously not taking a pop at you, I respect your views and contributions. However, let's not forget live moves forward and opinions are entitled to change, maybe that has something to do with us doing different things to that which we were doing in 1966 (listening on a solid state transistor radio). We listened then to something new, we sought something new, as anoraks, and bemoaned old people that were stuck in the past - let's hope that whilst my body isn't what it was :-) my brain stays young, open and looking forward whilst respecting what happened before.

Hope all receive this is the spirit it was sent

Regards
Eric