Wednesday, 18 April 2007
Quoting a previous Martin Rosen contribution:-
I presume Nick has listened to the comments of people he
respects, what others have said about the station to make an opinion.
You have to remember that all the 'experts' were fully briefed beforehand by the production company's researchers, and were given info 'packs' some days before the recording.
Plus, when you see somebody on (say) Question Time answering a question that's about something they haven't directly experienced, you still value their opinion. Nobody slams them for not having first hand experience. As in, we don't have to be in Iraq being shot at, or even in the forces, to 'know' what we think about people doing that job with inadequate equipment. Kinda thing.
My hands might be a bit tied when it comes to commenting about the programmes, but here goes:
Big L people are protesting that the production company misrepresented them. Well, in this world you can edit out things to cause bias, but you can't edit in things that didn't happen. So, what you saw actually happened. As in, there were no plausible replies to Harvey's questions, and there were long silences with Chris looking uncomfortable. They were spending a lot of time sitting around getting drunk together in the evenings. So, yes, one could argue the edit emphasised the points (damn well, imho) but the points existed in the first place, they weren't made up by the production company.
How can I put this. You have to remember that in any of these types of formula programmes, the loud and swearing 'expert' 'star' (in this case Harvey) is never wrong (even when they are wrong). Also, they are extremely highly briefed, and, one could argue, pick from a number of scenarios offered to them by the production company before shouting off as if they've just suddenly come up with the idea themselves. The production company usually deals with finding all the additional 'experts' for the central character to subsequently bring in as his friends to emphasise any points he's trying to make. Ultimately, these programmes are not about anything other than the 'star'. The rest of the contributors, especially those being 'helped' are fodder to his or her greatness.
To be honest, this is fairly plain and obvious to anybody agreeing to be on the programme. Indeed, one might argue, that the production company encourages them to be seen to react against the advice of the 'star'. The result is a damn good programme with tensions and conflict and lots of shouting and swearing, and that's what rates.
Sadly, the Harvey series has misfired a bit. When it was commissioned well over a year ago the swearing 'expert' shows (a la Ramsey) were all the rage. This has come a bit late and probably at the tail end of the interest in that type of programming. But hey ho.
Anyway, here's my take on what happens next to Big L:
The guys who are funding the station are doing it because of anoraksia first, and to make a profit second. So, regardless of what they are shown right before their very eyes, they'll keep funding it until their spare money runs out. That'll be a little while yet, but it will run out.
By then, one of two things will have happened. Option 1 (and an anorak choice) is that it will keep sounding more or less the same whilst suddenly there'll be a ground-swell of interest in the station and the RAJAR will show a climb, plus somebody will take a chance and throw advertising at the station. It has the potential to grow a non-anorak yet cult following, based on people liking the underdog.
Whilst everybody else has slagged off the Mike Read late night ranting (and hey, wouldn't it have been nice for him to have had emails and messages from people who don't anorak on the various forums, from real listeners), I think it was really good, not quite on a par with Charlie Wolf's anti-DTI rants on Laser, but it was close. It is motivating and has the potential to hook people. It can even be what triggers the cult following. (Sadly, it needs to be stage managed properly).
Option 2 is that the Big L format will change to narrowcast on a par with stations people are actually listening to, but audiences won't rise dramatically because they won't be doing anything different to what's already out there in higher quality and easier accessibility. Revenue still won't come in, and when the money runs out, it'll all go phut and nobody but the anoraks will notice.
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* Christopher England just said that *
Steve Martin <...> said:
From: "Christopher England" <...>At the moment they have virtually zero advertising revenue, maybe they
should bite the bullet and get out into their local community and knock on a
few doors and try and build from a local base outwards.
Local base? Where's that then? Frinton or Trintlehaven? if the latter then there is a language barrier, if the former then they may have trouble hearing them. Of course you'll always find this with a station transmitting from outside of of it's target area.
dave.
Quoting a previous Steve Martin contribution:-
What does Big L market itself as? A local station? National? Pan
European?At the moment they have virtually zero advertising revenue, maybe they
should bite the bullet and get out into their local community and knock
on a few doors and try and build from a local base outwards.
The problem is that the higher up the money tree you reach, the more it's all pre-determined and (some might argue) carteled to one or two major groups. In that respect you don't get Burger King, and can only get Frinton's Seafront Cafe...
This is something anoraks and vanity broadcasters just don't realise. These days it really really really is all sewn up when it comes to conventional advertising revenue. The spends are with whoever's in bed with whoever, not even relating to specific ratings.
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* Christopher England just said that *
From: "Dave Martin" <...>
Local base? Where's that then? Frinton or Trintlehaven?
Although I have never been to Frinton, I presume that you can actually hear it in Frinton on 1395.
I was in Lincolnshire a few months ago and it was fairly strong over there.
Steve Martin <...> said:
From: "Dave Martin" <...>
Local base? Where's that then? Frinton or Trintlehaven?Although I have never been to Frinton, I presume that you can actually
hear it in Frinton on 1395.
I was in Lincolnshire a few months ago and it was fairly strong over there.
Well yes you may well hear it in Frinton but how many people in Frinton know this? Remember they only got their first pub a few years ago(run by Shepard Neame), a legal station broadcasting from a foreign country may be a bit too radical for them. Mind you if they now have a alcohol problem in the area, then on the same premise Big L could be OK. (Anorakism is an addiction isn't?)
dave.
Didn't show them in a very good light did it? Chis Vezey came across as very arrogant and wasn't going to go with any ideas put to him to improve the station, If this was Caroline instead of Big L i can imagine Peter Moore being exactly the same,
I have always known about the Big L house and have never seen the point to it unless they trying to recreate the on board ship thing and all live together,In this day and age with all the technology about they could do their programmes from anywhere and link them to the studio, The bit in the programme where David Hamilton opened the wardrobe door and Mike was there sharing it from the other side reminded me of a Carry On film and that just about summed it up.
Richard
The Big L team handled this very badly.
I'm sure that there was a willingness on the part of the Channel 4 team to achieve a successful outcome.
Had they played along and taken the advice, then those with the purse strings could have olied the wheels for them.
Left without any demonstrable success Channel 4 edited the footed to convert the output into a "Meet the Armstrongs" type show.
It's unclear whether they actually want a business. They are so clear about the rightness of their programme model that they wholly lock out any advice. Do they want a business or a lifestyle? And what do the Meister-Bollier type partners really want?
I haven't had a chance to watch either the main film or the Showdown programme yet.
However, I did just quickly glance at the opening credits for the main film, and noted that the v/o had changed the comment about Frinton to "...the final port of call" from "...where people come to die". Not quite as harsh.
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We have probably all heard them. This is a review of one such occasion by Elisabeth Mahoney in today's Media Guardian
Despite its tragedy, *Matthew Bannister* (Radio Five Live) savoured the big story for yesterday's phone-in. "Why does America put up with this?" he asked, rhetorically. Before the 9am headlines, then between the headlines and sports news, Bannister begged the question and repeated the number to call. It was all suitably urgent and stirring.Then he went to the commentators on the phones. There was nobody there. "We'll talk to some callers instead," he said, but still there was only an insistent silence. Eventually, Bannister found an Australian gun-crime expert, who had just flown from the US to Sydney. "So forgive me if I'm suddenly not here," the expert said, presumably hinting that he might nod off through jet lag, but sounding odd in the context. Beyond this shambles, Bannister got entertainingly frustrated by people suggesting that this kind of outrage is the work of "a bit of a hothead". One caller, sweating the very small stuff, got equally cross about having to wait so long to speak. "I've forgotten my point now," he grumbled, "I've been waiting for 40 minutes."
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In article <0878209...>, ... (Richard Sharpe) wrote:
I have always known about the Big L house and have never seen the
point to it
So a station is run from a house – that's a very clever tax/funding position to be in
If you look around there are a number of media people who have even gained bank loans for properties because of a media contract – they have ended up with huge properties. Good move.
Eric
In article <...>, ... (Christopher England) wrote:
This is something anoraks and vanity broadcasters just don't realise.
These days it really really really is all sewn up when it comes to
conventional advertising revenue. The spends are with whoever's in
bed with whoever, not even relating to specific ratings.
Not totally C.E. – some are now very interested in modern data/stats. Not so much the RAJAR type, although that is not the same in SK where it could be argued the control centre is the same as it was 10 years ago in the UK.
So you have a mix of people – some want the RAJAR type stuff, others newer measuring systems, others will do stuff because they know each other.
It's in the mix.
Agreed you will not get the major brands like Orange and T-Mobile unless you have the right connections.
Eric
Steve Martin <...> said:
Although I have never been to Frinton, I presume that you can actually
hear it in Frinton on 1395.
It's so-so in the car – but a bit iffy on the radio that used to sit on the fridge in the Big L kitchen... Hence the rather interesting signal on 107.9 as you entered Frinton gates ;)
As for the programme – I never shout at the telly. I did last night. I laughed, I nodded... Mumsy couldn't believe it (she never believed me at the time). The debate should have been longer, especially considering what was cut from it – although the full recording is currently on it's way ;)
I hope they use the expert (and free) consultancy advice given during that E4 programme – the chaps from Chrysalis and EMAP made perfect sense, and the Brummie Brothers (messrs Barwell and McGregor) were made to look fools.
—
Charlie
Hello there Richard.
Yeah it was on last night and what an entertaining 90 minutes of TV it was too.
One achievement you can hand to Chris V and that is to make the normally fairly arrogant band of programme controllers on more successful (ratings wise) stations, look like the epitomy of humility compared to himself – which is a pity, as I like their thinking (wide playlists and all that) but the programme proved that for people like me, there is not a lot of point listening to music radio, as narrow playlists seem to be the way to survive the tough market place today.
Anyway......further to yesterdays crack, wasn't it eye opening to see Mike Reid playing to a small crowd of mostly elderly people on the Big L roadshow? I did mean my remark about the Working Mens Club to be a gag, but it does look like it would be a step up in his career, the way it is going st the moment.
Dermott
"""From: Richard Sharpe <...>
Subject: Re: Big L Programme on C4 Tonight.
Hi Dermott, There are at least 3 threads on here including this one, http://www.anoraknation.com/discussion/threads/598430 and a poll,
Plus it is mentioned in the Big L thread on DS,
As far knowing if the programme is about Big L or not, All i can say that it and the follow up programme on E-4 are both on the Sky EPG. Richard"""
There were a couple of good interviews just a little while ago on BIG AL's phone-in on Isle Of Wight Radio. He spoke first to Diddy David Hamilton and then to Mike Read. Ed Stewpot Stewart had guested on there a couple of weeks ago too.
The phone-in runs from 12 noon to 1pm on weekdays and interestingly they postpone the news for a few minutes or continue for a while after it if there are enough interesting things being talked about. It is also televised and goes out a day or two later on Solent TV (Sky Channel 219 "feeling fine" I believe).
Well U have to admit, the C4 programme has got oodles of free PR on AN and what's more the levels of traffic have jumped so quickly, the server must have had a real shock :-)
Eric
In the cold light of day, and with a degree of afterthought and taking
cognisence of other respondents opinions, I have come to the conclusion
that the whole shebang last night was a double bluff, a publicity stunt
which may backfire on Big L. here's why I think this.
1) Neither Mike Reid or David Hamilton come from the north Sea rustbuckets, although they have an understanding of the pirate ethos.
2) In spite of 1) Most of the D.J.'s have a vast experience of the broadcast media, so would know full well that the programme
is a vehicle for the T.V. channel and Harvey Goldsmith, not the victims,
which they may well have overplayed.
3) They were attempting to use the programme to their own ends, and knowing the editorial techniques did what they could to make use of their experience and knowledge of the system, which they were trying to
beat.
4) The financial backers cannot be the fools they portrayed themselves to be, else they would not have made the dosh they have to be able to
afford to lost 50grand a month for as long as they have.
5) All the critics were enthusiastic and passionate in their criticisms, whilst what little defence there was, was lacklustre and halfhearted.
surely the financeers and seasoned pro's would have mounted a more
spirited defence had they not had a hidden agenda.
I hope I am right, and I hope it works for them, broadcasting
in this country needs another serious boot up it's arse, akin
to what the original pirates gave it in the sixties. and with
the likes of OMR BigL RNI Gold and of course Caroline perhaps
a minor revolution is on the way.
From: "Eric Wiltsher" <...>
Well U have to admit, the C4 programme has got oodles of free PR on AN
and what's more the levels of traffic have jumped so quickly, the server
must have had a real shock :-)Eric
Yes it has brought this list back to life.
It hasn't done Big L any harm either!
Non stop emails since the programme, plus the website must have taken a hammering as it took ages to load up last night.
More publicity than any ad campaign could have possibly brought in, and free too!
Also Harvey should feature the producers of his prog, as they need to Get THEIR Act Together, having seen their ratings plummet and lost their prime time slot :-)
In article <1...>, ... (Arthur Sutherland) wrote:
in this country needs another serious boot up it's arse, akin
to what the original pirates gave it in the sixties. and with
the likes of OMR BigL RNI Gold and of course Caroline perhaps
a minor revolution is on the way.
You may be right Arthur, but the stations you mention are not market leaders. I agree much of the UK radio is terribly samey, but why? Equally, a minor revolution is better suited to students and younger people than those listening to older music stations – surely?
The USP, Unique Selling Point, the offshore stations had was simply they played music when needle time stopped others doing it.
Yes there were little bursts of nostalgia after that, probably Lazer558 is a good example, but other than that what are Gold stations doing that is so earth shattering?
I really understand that many on AN like older music – I really do. But where did all this older music start from? The youth creating a revolution in the 1960s.
There are so many areas of music that some would say should work, Country is one, where CD sales and/or downloads are high, but for some reason they just don't work. In short there's no real USP for them to work with.
Whilst I know some will go – NOT AGIAN! The truth is that there is a revolution taking place, downloads are now driving charts. Yes ordinary people struggling to get a record deal and can't – hum where do I remember that statement creating a revolution before.
The second revolution is diversity and that is being driven by all things digital, not just DAB but all things digital.
The diverse markets won't please everyone and for some it will mean they can only hear Christopher 'n' Eric singing My Old Mans a Dustman via an on-line service – that's the way it goes.
Digital still hasn't kicked off properly, DAB is just one aspect.
There will be some specialist shows, sure, on places like R2.
Back to your original point, ish, if you ask non-Anoraks what stations they can remember from what they call the pirate days I would suggest just two main names, Caroline and Luxembourg. People don't know to this day Luxy wasn't a pirate. You might find some 80's radio people include Lazer – so what about Britain, England, 390, Atlantis, Capital etc etc, even RNI. Which ever way you want to present NO VOTES, it will be no votes in a normal high-street survey. No not people ANers may mix with, but regular people.
If we get into the local stakes then I would add Jackie, again mainly because many thought it was a fully licensed station.
Waiting for the flack
Eric
In article <...>, ... (Steve Martin) wrote:
It hasn't done Big L any harm either!
I'd agree it hasn't done them any harm at all, the show wouldn't it is how the maximise the exposure that helps or harms them – it's all in there hands.
Eric
