Tuesday, 31 October 2006

Quoting a previous Sterling Times contribution:-

Jewish immigrants integrated perfectly into
British society

In what way?
—
* Christopher England just said that *



Quoting a previous Alan Milewczyk contribution:-

Even though I am
white, in my childhood in the 50s and 60s I suffered the same sort of
racial hatred/discrimination/bigotry as people of other "colours" where
their different ethnicity is palpable for all to see.

Would it not be fair to say that it is always the latest 'incoming' immigrants that suffer? After a period of time, a 'wave' of immigrants of one particular style or origin will become accepted, and they themselves will also look on suspiciously at the next 'wave'. I find it fascinating to work with a black fellow who was born and bred in the UK of St Lucian parents and tells terrible and shameful stories of the awful racism encountered by his parents, and to a lesser degree by himself. He now understands and appreciates living and working alongside white people and no longer sees racism (either way), but accepts and embraces the differences. However, he freely admits that he finds himself filled with suspicion and rejection when he encounters any of the influx of 'Eastern Europeans' (sic) in the places where he lives or shops, etc. In other words, although he keeps a lid on it, he feels toward them what the indigenous white British folk felt towards him (or more so his parents).

Hence my assertion that whoever the latest incoming are, they will always be treated badly.

From my standpoint as a Pole – yes I think of myself as Polish, even
though I am British by birth

For how long and for how many generations down your line into the future will you expect you children/grandchildren/great-etc., etc., to think of themselves as 'Polish'? And if they stop 'being Polish' what will they be?

Coming back to my personal position, I feel Polish even though I have
never lived there. I don't feel British even though I was born here and
have spent all my life here.

Now personally, I find that potentially a little bit disturbing. A bit like the 'Americans' who consider themselves 'Irish' even though it was their grandparents or great grandparents who once lived in Ireland and not they.

I have NO problems whatsoever with multiculturalism,

Whatever that is. I think I need a definition of 'multiculturalism' to help me understand what the heck it is. Is, for example, the British ex-pat community in the Costa-del-whichever, living in their closed-knit community of English-only speaking groups, with English pubs, clubs, and shops part of a 'multicultural' Spain? Or is it something else?
—
* Christopher England just said that *

Alan Milewczyk said:
So why am I not in the membership list and what do i do to get myself there?

Not sure if there are other factors involved, but it seems that if you want to be shown in the members list the best way is to enter something (even if it is only a word or two) into your profile in the preferences and save it.

Eric Richardson said:
Now i suggest we get back to discussing radio.

I suppose that for anyone who likes listening to boring music radio (like that Maidstone nonsense for example) it may be hard to appreciate an intellectual debate.

For those of us who recognise that talking radio is far superior we can justify almost anything here as "On Topic" simply by saying that it has been (or could be) disussed on the radio programmes that we enrich our lives by listening to. Conversations can be fun or they can be serious. If we believe in the idea of free radio it ought to follow that we should be people who believe that we can communicate about anything freely and without restriction.

Peter Really <...> said:

Oscar <...> said:

Eric Richardson said:
Now i suggest we get back to discussing radio.

I suppose that for anyone who likes listening to boring music radio (like that Maidstone nonsense for example) it may be hard to appreciate an intellectual debate.

For those of us who recognise that talking radio is far superior we can justify almost anything here as "On Topic" simply by saying that it has been (or could be) disussed on the radio programmes that we enrich our lives by listening to. Conversations can be fun or they can be serious. If we believe in the idea of free radio it ought to follow that we should be people who believe that we can communicate about anything freely and without restriction.

Brilliant Oscar ....... it's amazing how a little thought nudging can result in a healthy debate. It's a shame we are talking about this subject but ignoring it is dangerous and that's a reason why I posted the item. I'm obliged for your input.

Graham 

Graham Jones <...> said:

With respect I feel that to pull the article apart on account of detail is to miss the point.

The article IS going around (which is how I received it) and reflects genuine views.

Others who have commented would surely not be pleased to effectively be called racists. On AN we have a broad church of opinion and these opinions, like those of yourself, should be encouraged and not scorned .

Regards

Graham

I attacked the article, not the opinions.

By implication, I attacked the people who were too prejudiced to see that the article was, in fact,  based on lies.

To those people who were too stupid to see that it was lies: I deeply apologise for any discomfort they may have felt.

I do not like being lied to. Whether the lie is about immigration, the war in Iraq, the National Health Service improvements, educational standards, etc. etc.

You Graham, and anybody else, may hold any opinions you wish. Do not expect me to praise and encourage you for having one, everybody else has got one too. 

I am deeply uninterested in the opinions that you may have, why should your opinion be rated any higher than any of the other six billion or so people on this planet?

But, if you can bring evidence in favour of your opinion, then I might rate your opinion more highly.

But don't lie to me, (and don't try to 'spin' the truth either) that merely demonstrates that you hold me in contempt, and is an indication that you, and your opinions, may not be very wholesome.

On 30 Oct 2006 23:58:21 +0000, Watson Black <...> wrote:

In article <0f3801c6fc59$42400aa0$0100a8c0@server3>, ... (Alan Milewczyk) wrote:

The other perspective of "when in Rome" is from the indigenous
population. I find it laughable when people propose that stance yet
go abroad on holiday without making the slightest effort to learn the
language, hoping that their English will count for something.
Arrogant doesn't even cover it! But of course what would one expect
of a former colonial power? One that routinely destroyed local
cultures and even imposed its own brand of religion on the native
population. The double standards here are simply breath-taking.

I think the double standards would be to expect people to come on holiday, assist the GDP of a country and at the same time learn a language.
I agree it might make for a rapid growth in night school classes but that's about it.
In this area of SK it is very much accepted that the big growth area is that of tourism and to embrace those spending the money the hotel and service people are all off learning English – all the indications are that it will be English speaking tourism that will be the major growth. Now as one person said to me in Slovak, now that you live in SK will you be learning Slovak. I replied in Slovak that I already am learning. However, it was now up to said person to learn English so that they could understand what a tourist was saying and equally give them all the courtesy they deserved for spending there holiday time and money in SK. I don't consider that double-standards

From my standpoint as a Pole – yes I think of myself as Polish, even

though I am British by birth – racial discrimination is largely born
out of fear. In today's climate, for loss of jobs.

Mostly fuelled by losers?

Let's be clear, when the Accession States joined the EU two and a
half years ago, workers were free to come here but would not be
eligible for ANY benefits until they had 12 months continuous
employment. Hardly a recipe for spongers! As for refugees (now known
as asylum seekers), they are actually PREVENTED by Home Office rules
from taking up employment.

That is very true and a point I raised with Tony Blair when I spoke to him.

slightest by the former. Let's be clear, the one factor for Poles
coming here is for the chance of a better life. Professionally
qualified people cannot get jobs in Poland. Those who are in
employment earn a pittance and are unable to "balance their books".
Here. at least, if you work hard, you will be able to earn a living,
it may be at the minimum wage but it's a hell of a lot better than
the alternative in Poland!

There was a good report on that recently, where Poland, especially, is now holding expos to get people back as they are suffering from a brain-drain situation.

What is being British and when does one become British and what
doesn't make one British? I can't answer that fully, but would point
to the history books.

I agree Alan, that is hard. But I think I can also offer some help as one who has worked outside Britain a lot and now I live outside the UK. The only real export the UK now is that of English. Some might try to suggest that other languages are critically important but try telling that to a commercial airline pilot or medical professor.
To some degree you are right in that being British is a historical thing. I also think it is a mind-set. It even extends to the Last Night Of The Proms, now that's terribly British – isn't it?

My over-riding tenet in the way I conduct myself involves the
all-encompassing word "respect". I respect others coming here to hold
their views and practice their customs – equally I expect them to
return that courtesy to me and respect my right to practice my
beliefs. I have no problem with someone celebrating Eid, Ramadan,
Passover, Hannukah or Christmas as long as we can all practice what
we choose, even the right NOT to practice something.

There I again have some agreement with you as long as it doesn't mean that the faith of the person means it breaches the laws of the country they wish to live in.
Let's face it, I drive on the right hand side of the road now because that's the chosen rule of the country where I drive.
There are different road signs here and if I get it wrong they I pay the fine cos it's my fault.
I don't subscribe to the view, which was tested in the 1960s, I think, that because of some faith I didn't need to wear a crash helmet on a motor cycle. The law said you did and so you respect that law.
In radio I have to respect that commercials in languages other than Slovak need a Slovak precis, explanation, behind them – hence why we do that.

Dunno if I have fanned the flames here, but it's just my take on
things as a 57 year old Polak-in-exile;-)

I don't think so Alan, I do believe that most look at things through rose tinted glasses and/or look at such issues without experiencing both sides of the issue. They should try it first and then comment.

Eric

Write your own jingles in the genre of Big L. Pick a well known tune and add the lyrics in the Big Big L style.

Here's my entry to the tune of Last of the Summer Wines.

We all love Gary, he's the one,

With so much laughter and lots of fun,

On thirteen ninety five, Big L,

Gary's ego will surely swell.

Is currently doing the breakfast show from Caroline maidstone.

Peter Really <...> said:

Steve West <...> said:
Is currently doing the breakfast show from Caroline maidstone.

Oops:
We had a major Internet problem at the studio last night which has just been rectified. The Roger Day show is one that we keep as a standby – sorry but the man is currently on Saga FM in Birmingham and can only rarely do Radio Caroline these days,

Graham Jones <...> said:

 

 

Peter,

Your reply strikes me as a bit hysterical. You start by saying "with respect" ...... now that is a sure sign you are about to insult someone and you gradually got so annoyed you eventually did.

 

Er, Graham, I did not use the words 'with respect'. You did.

I have a broad back and won't respond likewise, but I would comment thus:

You have put the question in hand alongside:

The NHS (No Hope Service - I know I WORK for them)

Iraq: It's a war crime in my opnion

Education: A disaster

SO WE AGREE !!! But it has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic I raised. I didn't write it (although your posting amost suggests I did)

Where did I almost suggest that you wrote the article? It is patently clear that I didn't suggest any such thing.

and you then descend into insults .... I am apparently a member of CE's "Great Unwashed" and proud to be there having been given the title by him since it comes with a hard skin - one you will not penetrate.

Something else I didn't do, Graham. Where did I insult you? It seems to me, Graham, that I never used the phrase "Great Unwashed" anywhere, what I did say was that people who uncritically believed the content of the original article were stupid. If you feel that I am calling you stupid, Graham, then feel free to carry on thinking that. I will not disabuse you of that conclusion - it may well be thoroughly justified.

All you (or anyone else) has to do is to unequivacally call me a racist here on AN and it will cost you. (not a threat, a PROMISE) .

I have no idea whether you are a racist or not. Furthermore I do not care what beliefs you have. But if you are going to try to conconct an argument with me, back it up with facts, the arguments that you have presented so far have been either untruths or baseless innuedo.

Have a nice day

I fully intend to have a nice day, whether you wish me one or not.

Alan Milewczyk <...> said:

I joined mailspaces and set my preferences and joined this forum through this route. When I click on the site the cookie recognises me and plonks my name in the top right hand corner. So far so good. When I go onto the anorak nationwebsite, that too recognises me. So why am I not in the membership list and what do i do to get myself there? Apologies if this has been covered before. Maybe it's late and time for bed? A

I entered something in my profile but I dont seem to appear in the members list. Most strange!!!

Dennis Rye <...> said: